Episode 78 - Dune: Part Two

[00:00:16] Welcome to Movie Mistrial.

[00:00:22] The podcast will be opine about how accurate IMDb's top 250 movies of all time are.

[00:00:30] My name is Johannes.

[00:00:32] And I am Raji.

[00:00:33] Today we're discussing another film on this educational list.

[00:00:37] Dune 2.

[00:00:38] This movie snuck into the IMDb top 250 in the last few months.

[00:00:45] It stars Timothy Chalamagne, Zendaya and Austin Butler.

[00:00:49] I was directed by Denifina Newe.

[00:00:52] Dune 2 is a hot ticket these days ever since it was released on March 1st, 2024.

[00:00:59] Before driving the sand wall and getting high on psychedelic dead juice.

[00:01:03] I'll ask you, how's your day going?

[00:01:07] It's going well.

[00:01:08] Just finished.

[00:01:09] I know I talked with...

[00:01:10] I was elated when I talked about it, when I started the acting class.

[00:01:14] Done with it now.

[00:01:15] I learned a lot.

[00:01:18] The weirdest thing you as an audio producer with this whole thing as well, right?

[00:01:25] Is a thing that is kind of related to this.

[00:01:29] You know that moment when you hear your voice for the first time and it's like, huh, that's

[00:01:33] weird, right?

[00:01:34] But it's like...

[00:01:35] Yeah.

[00:01:36] And everybody's...

[00:01:37] And you think like, that must be weird for everybody else, right?

[00:01:39] Because it's like, this is not what you're hearing.

[00:01:41] But it's not weird for everybody else because everybody else is familiar with it.

[00:01:45] So a similar thing happened for me, for the acting class.

[00:01:49] But when I watched at the recording of the scene that I did.

[00:01:53] And but it wasn't the voice because I listened to my voice all the time editing this podcast.

[00:01:58] It was me moving.

[00:01:59] And I was like, that is so weird.

[00:02:01] It looks so weird when I walk around.

[00:02:05] But you know, everybody else sees me move around.

[00:02:07] So I guess it's not weird.

[00:02:10] So that was one of the epiphanies I had of learning or like trying acting in a way.

[00:02:18] Very fascinating.

[00:02:19] And I also learned that it's a lot harder than anticipated in a way because there's just

[00:02:24] so many things you need to do and so many things you need to think about at the same

[00:02:27] time.

[00:02:30] And it really helps if you have your lines set, which I didn't.

[00:02:36] You just kind of keep on struggling trying to come up with the next line versus just doing

[00:02:41] the thing.

[00:02:42] So I learned a lot.

[00:02:43] It was cool.

[00:02:44] What makes you happy?

[00:02:47] What makes me happy.

[00:02:48] I'm writing a new novel, a new novel.

[00:02:51] So my last novel was a mitigated disaster.

[00:02:55] I mean, it's still rated well.

[00:03:00] I spent so much money on trying to make it right.

[00:03:03] It was rated 3.5 on the Goodreads.

[00:03:09] Some good comments.

[00:03:10] Yeah.

[00:03:11] It was all right, but nobody bought it.

[00:03:13] I spent thousands and thousands of dollars trying to make sure the edit was okay, trying

[00:03:19] to release the book, printing the books out and nobody bought it.

[00:03:23] So I thought I would never write again.

[00:03:26] But now I'm going back because I like discipline.

[00:03:31] And maybe this is what is going to make my head snap back when I release the second one.

[00:03:37] It fails again.

[00:03:38] But I'm enjoying the whole process.

[00:03:40] I like writing.

[00:03:41] I love writing.

[00:03:42] I've always loved writing.

[00:03:43] I like telling stories and I really want to make sure that I get this one right.

[00:03:48] So yeah, I'm in the process again.

[00:03:51] I'm getting into the coffee drinking mode in front of my computer and listening to

[00:03:56] lo-fi music while the story spills out.

[00:04:00] Good times are back.

[00:04:01] Excellent, excellent.

[00:04:02] So did I hear you have hard copies of your first book still?

[00:04:06] I do.

[00:04:08] Even I don't care for them that much anymore.

[00:04:12] It's okay.

[00:04:15] I like the book.

[00:04:19] My friends who read the book loved it.

[00:04:21] I get calls to write another one.

[00:04:23] I've been getting calls to rewrite another one or write a story.

[00:04:28] And it's taken a while, but I'm like, all right.

[00:04:31] You know what?

[00:04:32] I've made enough money that I can throw away into the pit hole of writing and I'm going

[00:04:38] to give this a shot.

[00:04:39] Yeah, the original one is called The Dark City Chronicles.

[00:04:43] And if you wanted to pick it up on Amazon, it's over there.

[00:04:46] It's under the Monica Don Rajan.

[00:04:49] So yeah, shameless plug.

[00:04:52] But it is what it is.

[00:04:56] And if you want to sign copy, you know, reach out to contact at moviemistra.com.

[00:05:00] Oh, sure.

[00:05:01] Yes.

[00:05:04] Yes, that too.

[00:05:09] What we will not be able to get a signed copy of

[00:05:13] is a movie poster of Dune 2.

[00:05:18] So so yeah, it's a recent addition to the IMDB top to 50.

[00:05:23] It sounds like there are a lot of these these days.

[00:05:26] 12th fail last episode kind of shocked us.

[00:05:30] Now, Dune 2, what is going on?

[00:05:31] I want my order on my list.

[00:05:32] I want to do it.

[00:05:34] And the weird thing about it is we've not reviewed a movie like Lawrence of Arabia.

[00:05:40] You know, which is basically Dune Zero then.

[00:05:44] Yes, exactly.

[00:05:45] I was, you know, this Dune 2 has a lot of elements of Lawrence of Arabia in it.

[00:05:50] And Lawrence of Arabia is a classic film long.

[00:05:53] You feel the length of that film again, Dune Zero.

[00:06:00] But you know, it's it's interesting anyway.

[00:06:04] I.

[00:06:06] We'll see. Let's talk about it before we go into that.

[00:06:10] Let's let's hear some nonsense.

[00:06:12] Yeah, Dune Part Two continues the epic science fiction saga based on

[00:06:18] the iconic novel by Frank Herbert directed by Denis Villeneuve.

[00:06:22] Picking up with a first installment left off, it follows the journey of Paul

[00:06:26] Atreides as he embraces his destiny as the messianic figure known as Moir Deep

[00:06:31] and leads a rebellion against the oppressive forces of the Imperium.

[00:06:35] As Paul navigates political intrigue and battles for control

[00:06:38] of the desert planet Arrakis, he grapples with his own inner conflicts

[00:06:42] and the consequences of his newfound power with breathtaking visuals,

[00:06:46] intricate worldbuilding and gripping storytelling.

[00:06:49] Dune Part Two delves deeper into the themes of politics, religion

[00:06:53] and the human condition, captivating audiences with a grandeur and.

[00:06:57] Captivating audiences with its grandeur and depth.

[00:07:02] All right, my friend, let's start talking about this movie.

[00:07:06] But before we can start about, we need to figure out who's speaking on which side.

[00:07:12] So as always, heads or tails?

[00:07:15] I'm going to go with heads.

[00:07:18] Heads.

[00:07:21] I'm not going to make my life difficult today.

[00:07:23] I'm going to speak for the film.

[00:07:25] Oh, yes. OK.

[00:07:29] OK. Wow.

[00:07:30] All right.

[00:07:32] Someone has been prepared for this.

[00:07:37] All right, here we go.

[00:07:37] The witness will address this court as judge or your own ladies and gentlemen.

[00:07:42] Dune two.

[00:07:45] I think had I not left the theater, it's probably still running.

[00:07:50] And that's all in like three days ago.

[00:07:52] This movie is fricking long and nothing happens.

[00:07:57] And the thing that happened have no point in the story at all.

[00:08:06] We're inundated with law and prophecies

[00:08:09] and potential and not potential and going back and forth

[00:08:12] and a potential war, but not really a war.

[00:08:16] We see fights that are completely out of context.

[00:08:19] There's no strategy.

[00:08:20] There's no it's all about what could be, you know, if you do this, then you could be the

[00:08:26] emperor, you could kill a thousand people, but it's so droning and nothing happens.

[00:08:33] Motivations are not really clear.

[00:08:36] It's so boring.

[00:08:40] And we have characters established.

[00:08:42] And created kind of hype around them.

[00:08:47] And they're so bad, they're so evil, they're so powerful.

[00:08:52] They're the almighty.

[00:08:53] Basically, they're going to be the big

[00:08:58] antithesis to Paula Trady's.

[00:09:00] And then they're not there just fizzle out.

[00:09:03] And it's like I feel like none of the stakes that are supposedly happening

[00:09:08] here are really stakes because everything is so easy.

[00:09:14] So what we have here is a movie that is just

[00:09:19] long and boring, and there's no real stakes

[00:09:23] because every everything just happens to work

[00:09:29] so easily for everybody.

[00:09:31] There's no challenge really.

[00:09:34] So yeah, that's kind of my my frustration for this, my opening frustration.

[00:09:38] OK.

[00:09:41] For me, Dune 2 is one of those films that I feel would have benefited

[00:09:45] from being longer, which is ironic in what you've just said.

[00:09:50] I as a reader of the book,

[00:09:54] somebody who appreciates the book, I have to

[00:09:59] point out that it felt empty in some scenes where

[00:10:03] a lot of the things could have been added.

[00:10:05] So if there is a director's cut of this film,

[00:10:08] I'll definitely be buying it.

[00:10:09] Let's make it four hours long.

[00:10:11] If I can go through the whole lot of the rings with my wife every year,

[00:10:16] then maybe I can do this.

[00:10:19] But I would say that to counter some of your points,

[00:10:23] the movies about how individuals manipulate

[00:10:27] religion and propaganda to control the population.

[00:10:31] Your point about how it seems like it's so

[00:10:35] easy is a testament to how effective that whole premise works.

[00:10:43] And we play,

[00:10:47] we see characters like Zendaya,

[00:10:50] who plays the moral center of this film,

[00:10:53] alongside villains like Paul Atreus,

[00:10:59] who plays the manipulator of the whole tribe.

[00:11:05] Feeding them lies,

[00:11:08] manipulating whole scenes, making things seem

[00:11:13] like he doesn't understand, but yet he understands fully what he's doing.

[00:11:17] He like his mother,

[00:11:20] their goal is to grab this whole tribe and make it there

[00:11:23] so that they can counter the effects of what happened in part one.

[00:11:28] And while he seemingly seemed where he seemed reluctant,

[00:11:32] there are many actions in this movie that kind of make it feel like he's

[00:11:37] an active participant in the manipulation.

[00:11:42] But a lot of things that I would cover include the fact that this movie

[00:11:45] is genuinely funny, the imagery is amazing,

[00:11:48] the sound stage is absolutely stunning

[00:11:52] and the story is interesting.

[00:11:55] And I think that this movie captures all the elements

[00:11:59] of a classic sci-fi masterpiece.

[00:12:03] And I will be countering a lot of the points that you bring up.

[00:12:07] So that's generally the outline of what I'm going to go work with.

[00:12:13] OK, so let's talk about what actually happens here.

[00:12:17] Right. So Paul Atreus is living with the

[00:12:22] Sand people,

[00:12:24] the Fremen.

[00:12:25] There we are with the Fremen.

[00:12:27] And he's trying to convince them that he, well,

[00:12:30] he's he's trying to not try to come off as

[00:12:35] as if he's trying to convince them

[00:12:38] that he is their religious

[00:12:41] leader.

[00:12:43] Right there, the prophecy is coming through.

[00:12:45] He's he's he's Jesus, basically, right?

[00:12:48] So I would think

[00:12:59] that

[00:13:01] there is a little more trials and tribulations

[00:13:04] for this.

[00:13:06] And there really isn't.

[00:13:07] There's one scene.

[00:13:10] That starts off with, oh, he needs to prove himself.

[00:13:14] And in order to do this, you need to go through the desert alone.

[00:13:18] You need to go all the way back there and then come back.

[00:13:21] And you have they don't even say how much time he has.

[00:13:24] And everybody is doubting him.

[00:13:27] And we see him leave

[00:13:29] and then cut to him walking at night.

[00:13:32] And Zendaya is just kind of there.

[00:13:35] And that's the last of that trial

[00:13:38] and tribulations that is put on him.

[00:13:41] All the other scenes after that are fighting

[00:13:44] with other people.

[00:13:45] So I'm

[00:13:47] I'm really missing the

[00:13:50] element of he needs to prove himself.

[00:13:53] What we're left with is actions

[00:13:56] that are then followed up with.

[00:13:58] It's according to the prophecy, it needs to be him.

[00:14:02] And I don't think that's compelling because it's not

[00:14:07] from a storytelling component.

[00:14:09] It's really like you're missing the

[00:14:12] strategy behind it in a way.

[00:14:15] I'm missing that, at least it's like

[00:14:18] if there's at least a conversation with his

[00:14:20] mother at some point is like, hey,

[00:14:23] you know, you know, the prophecy says these things

[00:14:26] and acknowledging that there is the prophecy

[00:14:28] and there's like certain events that happen.

[00:14:30] For the people to live.

[00:14:32] At least you could kind of finagle it in a way

[00:14:34] that you understand, OK, he's really trying to balance

[00:14:37] the oh, it's happenstance and they believe

[00:14:42] it's a thing and they twist everything

[00:14:45] or it's calculated because at the end of the day,

[00:14:48] I think it's pretty clear it's calculated

[00:14:50] that he needs to be the leader, right?

[00:14:52] He needs to be the

[00:14:54] Jesus for them.

[00:14:57] But I'm missing that

[00:14:58] that kind of conversation around,

[00:15:02] you know, it doesn't need to happen for us to

[00:15:04] continue on to

[00:15:06] to fight the bad guys.

[00:15:08] So how do we get there?

[00:15:10] Because I think what we're left with is just

[00:15:12] this wishy washy milk toast,

[00:15:15] Timothy Shala May

[00:15:17] kind of thing that it's like

[00:15:21] it's there and it's just it's

[00:15:23] it's straddling that fence

[00:15:25] and it's just it's just a little bit of a

[00:15:27] fence, but it's not taking the stands

[00:15:30] and I think it would be more powerful if it did.

[00:15:33] Interesting, you know, one of the things that

[00:15:35] I find weird about this film is the fact

[00:15:38] that his mom is just called Jessica.

[00:15:41] You know,

[00:15:42] and you know, everybody has like interesting

[00:15:45] names, still God, Chani,

[00:15:47] Gurney, Freyid Ratha,

[00:15:51] Irulan, Raban,

[00:15:53] so many fascinating names on this

[00:15:55] mom is just called Jessica.

[00:15:59] But so, yes, I can get

[00:16:01] some of your the points you're making,

[00:16:03] but I think that it kind of feeds into the story.

[00:16:06] You know, the movie begins with

[00:16:09] you know, the summary of what happened in

[00:16:12] Pat Warren

[00:16:14] scenes in the desert

[00:16:16] where they're fighting the

[00:16:19] the opposing forces.

[00:16:21] And one of the things that we see is that

[00:16:26] what do you call it?

[00:16:28] The

[00:16:30] Paul, the traitors, played by

[00:16:31] Timutishadamé, fights one of the bad guys,

[00:16:34] kills him and as he was

[00:16:37] finishing him off, or another one appears

[00:16:39] from the approaches from the back

[00:16:41] and Jessica comes with a stone,

[00:16:45] bangs him in the head and tells him

[00:16:47] and tells her son after she kills the

[00:16:50] perpetrator, tells his son that he needs

[00:16:53] to pay more attention.

[00:16:54] I should always have someone watching

[00:16:57] his back.

[00:16:59] But she's saying never have your

[00:17:02] back open to the open dune

[00:17:05] while having her back open to the open

[00:17:07] Yeah, sure. I mean, but she probably

[00:17:09] would have checked behind her to make

[00:17:11] sure that nobody was coming.

[00:17:14] So yes, I get the I see

[00:17:16] the I see the

[00:17:18] the point that she's making

[00:17:21] and I see the point that you're making,

[00:17:23] but she's a trained warrior.

[00:17:25] We'll just go that she can she can sense

[00:17:27] everything.

[00:17:29] But I feel like, you know,

[00:17:32] that began the

[00:17:35] idea of

[00:17:37] destiny versus manipulation,

[00:17:40] a thing that kind of goes throughout

[00:17:43] this film.

[00:17:45] At the end of the film, he's fighting

[00:17:48] with Fade, Fade rather

[00:17:52] and at one point he gets stabbed

[00:17:54] and Jessica reacts to it.

[00:17:57] And, you know, that is basically

[00:17:59] the brilliance of this film.

[00:18:01] The moment she reacts to it, like, oh, my

[00:18:03] god, it's my son.

[00:18:05] The moment Stilgar reacts to that

[00:18:09] it kind of shows

[00:18:12] that the original idea behind

[00:18:14] them where they all felt like it was

[00:18:16] destiny for him to rule the universe

[00:18:18] kind of falls apart.

[00:18:20] And the whole things become

[00:18:22] every action then becomes a situation

[00:18:25] where it's calculated.

[00:18:27] It's a calculated move for Stilgar

[00:18:29] to appoint Jessica the Reverend

[00:18:31] Mother. It's a calculated move

[00:18:33] for Paul Atreus

[00:18:36] to put his ring in his pocket

[00:18:38] behind him and say that he wants

[00:18:40] to be like everyone.

[00:18:42] But the moment where he feels like

[00:18:44] he is already instilled enough

[00:18:46] knowledge into the people after he

[00:18:48] wakes up from drinking

[00:18:50] the water of life,

[00:18:51] he slips the ring on, goes to the

[00:18:53] front and tells everybody he's better

[00:18:55] than them and that they all

[00:18:57] they all fight for him.

[00:18:58] He should be their leader.

[00:19:00] That even a choice of, you know,

[00:19:03] then of the of the rat

[00:19:06] more deep was

[00:19:08] calculated because in the first

[00:19:10] film he's been told extensively

[00:19:13] about the rat and how

[00:19:15] it survives.

[00:19:17] And in this movie, he acts like

[00:19:19] he has never heard of that concept.

[00:19:21] It's like, oh, I want to be more

[00:19:23] deep and the guy is like more deep.

[00:19:26] Oh, that's a very brilliant name.

[00:19:28] Is it? Tell me more.

[00:19:31] Basically acting like he doesn't

[00:19:32] understand the impact of what he's

[00:19:34] saying.

[00:19:35] So the general idea

[00:19:37] is these people are playing a

[00:19:40] path. They want to survive in the

[00:19:42] forest. They want to gain access

[00:19:44] to the whole tribe.

[00:19:47] And

[00:19:49] you know, when

[00:19:52] we see Gurny return,

[00:19:54] they at some point and he tells him

[00:19:56] that he knows where

[00:19:59] the nuclear weapons are.

[00:20:01] That was when we started to see

[00:20:02] the the flip for Matres, where

[00:20:04] he's going, all right,

[00:20:06] I have firepower now

[00:20:08] and then he starts to make even

[00:20:10] more

[00:20:11] individualistic decisions.

[00:20:15] He starts to make decisions that he

[00:20:17] knows he can use to accelerate

[00:20:20] his rise to power.

[00:20:22] So yes, this movie is about revenge

[00:20:25] in many ways.

[00:20:26] It's about the idea of destiny

[00:20:29] versus manipulation.

[00:20:31] It's an idea that is

[00:20:33] all encapsulated

[00:20:35] in rich, beautiful

[00:20:38] imagery, wonderful

[00:20:40] sound, impactful

[00:20:42] sound. I mean, the movie theater was

[00:20:44] watching it. The whole chair was just

[00:20:45] vibrating.

[00:20:46] It felt like I was I was I was writing

[00:20:50] the sandworms in that scene.

[00:20:53] But

[00:20:54] it was accentuated

[00:20:57] by the acting.

[00:20:58] The movie was anchored by the acting

[00:21:00] of Zendaya, who

[00:21:03] was unaware

[00:21:05] of all of the manipulation

[00:21:07] that was going on and who

[00:21:09] was shocked at the very end of the

[00:21:12] film when she realized that

[00:21:14] she was just a

[00:21:18] just a pawn in the game

[00:21:20] that everybody was playing.

[00:21:23] In the book, Paul Atreus was

[00:21:25] more cold.

[00:21:27] In the movie, Chani was not

[00:21:29] even in the scene, but

[00:21:31] the decision by the director to

[00:21:33] include her helps the

[00:21:35] audience see things from her

[00:21:37] perspective.

[00:21:39] And as she rises to the sunset

[00:21:41] and 100 percent sure,

[00:21:43] she would have felt like she lost

[00:21:45] her tribe and she should have done

[00:21:47] more to stop the manipulation.

[00:21:49] The movie is a beautiful allegory

[00:21:53] on that scale.

[00:21:54] And I think that the director did

[00:21:56] a masterful job telling the story.

[00:21:59] So. Oh, so many things

[00:22:01] I want to cover here. So Zendaya,

[00:22:03] I think Zendaya got the job because

[00:22:05] she's very good at just looking kind

[00:22:06] of frowny and pissed.

[00:22:09] And she gets to do that a lot here.

[00:22:11] She doesn't have a lot of range in a way,

[00:22:12] like she's beautiful.

[00:22:13] But I think she does the

[00:22:17] you know, frowny, bitchy face

[00:22:19] very well. And that's why she is.

[00:22:21] I think that that conflict at the end

[00:22:23] like he's I mean, it's projected,

[00:22:25] right? It's like, well, I still love

[00:22:26] you, whatever happens.

[00:22:28] Right. It's just again, it's like

[00:22:30] this could have been a conversation

[00:22:32] where. But I think

[00:22:34] the thing that people will always

[00:22:36] say is, well, he has seen the future

[00:22:38] in all the different variations.

[00:22:40] He's basically the Doctor Strange of

[00:22:41] of this universe, right?

[00:22:43] And and.

[00:22:45] He's seen he's seen all the different

[00:22:47] paths something can go.

[00:22:49] So he's going to path.

[00:22:51] He's going down the path that was

[00:22:52] like the one chance to defeat Thanos.

[00:22:55] Right. So that's basically what's

[00:22:56] happening here. And that's what's

[00:22:58] explaining a lot of the

[00:23:00] a lot of the.

[00:23:03] The things that could have been an

[00:23:04] email or could have been a conversation

[00:23:05] and avoided the whole conflict.

[00:23:08] But

[00:23:10] I'm not super convinced.

[00:23:11] And names who said Johnny

[00:23:13] a lot of times it sounds like Johnny

[00:23:14] was like, why are you calling her

[00:23:16] Johnny? That's weird.

[00:23:19] So naming in this film is strange,

[00:23:20] but that's just in the side.

[00:23:22] The

[00:23:25] the set piece and kind

[00:23:26] of the story beats here and there

[00:23:28] are completely bonkers.

[00:23:30] And one of the things

[00:23:32] that looks freaking cool,

[00:23:35] but if you think about it for two

[00:23:36] minutes, just makes no sense

[00:23:39] is the Fremen being

[00:23:41] buried on the ground

[00:23:45] ready for battle.

[00:23:47] Because it's like

[00:23:49] the first time we see the

[00:23:51] first time we see this, it's

[00:23:54] in a spice field and they

[00:23:56] dropped the spice harvesting

[00:23:58] thing.

[00:24:01] And it seems like the

[00:24:03] ground is fairly solid, but

[00:24:05] that's beside the point.

[00:24:07] The reason why it doesn't make

[00:24:08] sense a lot is

[00:24:10] they apparently know exactly

[00:24:12] where the thing is being dropped

[00:24:13] because the chance of

[00:24:15] this gigantic machine being dropped

[00:24:16] on top of them

[00:24:18] is not small.

[00:24:20] Right? So so that's

[00:24:21] that's a little strange and then

[00:24:22] they time it perfectly when they

[00:24:23] just get out of the sand

[00:24:25] right when it needs to happen

[00:24:27] for them not to be killed.

[00:24:29] Weird.

[00:24:30] So that's the first the first

[00:24:32] time that happens.

[00:24:33] The second time that happens

[00:24:35] and it makes even less sense is in

[00:24:36] the final battle.

[00:24:38] They talk about strategy

[00:24:39] finally, right?

[00:24:41] They have this map of like,

[00:24:43] OK, this is where this team

[00:24:44] is coming in.

[00:24:45] This is where that team is

[00:24:46] coming in and we'll just kind

[00:24:48] of start fighting everybody.

[00:24:51] So the storm comes in.

[00:24:53] Teams are starting to fight

[00:24:55] and then in daylight

[00:24:57] we have Fremen soldiers coming

[00:24:59] out of the ground attacking

[00:25:00] the ground troops.

[00:25:02] It was like, when did that

[00:25:04] happen? How did they get there?

[00:25:06] When were they able to bury

[00:25:07] themselves there

[00:25:09] to prepare for this fight

[00:25:10] because it is still daylight.

[00:25:12] And last time we saw it

[00:25:13] it was daylight when they had

[00:25:15] the strategy right so

[00:25:17] so there's a lot of movie

[00:25:19] there's a lot of times in this

[00:25:20] film where it felt like

[00:25:22] we're doing something.

[00:25:23] It looks cool and the vibe

[00:25:24] is great, but it makes

[00:25:26] no sense, right?

[00:25:28] And it just kind of goes

[00:25:29] over your head.

[00:25:30] But when you when you think

[00:25:31] about it a little more

[00:25:33] is really, really challenging

[00:25:35] for me. It's like this.

[00:25:37] Yes, it looks cool.

[00:25:38] I like the vibe, but

[00:25:41] how is any of this happening?

[00:25:44] Right? And the whole

[00:25:45] sandworm writing thing.

[00:25:47] I get it for mass transportation

[00:25:48] when I go to the south.

[00:25:50] That's kind of an interesting

[00:25:51] thing.

[00:25:52] But seeing

[00:25:55] what's his name, not

[00:25:56] Benishio D'Altaro, but he

[00:25:57] kind of reminds me of him.

[00:26:00] Just a bit.

[00:26:01] Yeah, yeah.

[00:26:02] Just kind of kind of vibing

[00:26:04] on the sandworm fairly

[00:26:06] early on.

[00:26:08] Just writing for fun.

[00:26:09] It seems like that seems

[00:26:10] incredibly dangerous for

[00:26:12] nothing.

[00:26:13] And it's just kind of a

[00:26:15] hey, this is also a thing

[00:26:17] in this world.

[00:26:18] I don't know.

[00:26:19] It's weird.

[00:26:20] I have one more thing, but

[00:26:21] I'll give you some space

[00:26:23] to talk.

[00:26:24] Yeah, sure.

[00:26:25] I do think that

[00:26:27] when you see people going

[00:26:28] into the ocean to surf,

[00:26:30] I feel like

[00:26:31] writing the sandworm

[00:26:33] is finding the perfect

[00:26:34] wave, jumping on that

[00:26:36] and then enjoying the

[00:26:37] experience of it.

[00:26:39] So, you know, there's

[00:26:40] really no, I mean, there's

[00:26:41] some purpose to

[00:26:43] surfing and the people who

[00:26:45] love doing it, love doing it.

[00:26:48] I wouldn't call the whole

[00:26:49] process.

[00:26:53] I wouldn't

[00:26:55] denigrate the process until

[00:26:56] you write one.

[00:26:57] So

[00:26:59] I would say my question is

[00:27:00] go on a sandworm,

[00:27:02] see how it feels

[00:27:04] and see if you're actually

[00:27:05] living and maybe you can

[00:27:06] appreciate it even more.

[00:27:08] Now I want to touch on the

[00:27:09] Zendaya topic.

[00:27:11] I think that

[00:27:13] I think that, you know,

[00:27:14] I think the way you

[00:27:15] portrayed her was quite

[00:27:16] unfair.

[00:27:17] I think that she was

[00:27:18] excellent in this

[00:27:19] film, honestly.

[00:27:20] I think that

[00:27:22] her role was more than

[00:27:23] just looking pretty

[00:27:25] and showing

[00:27:27] the faces.

[00:27:28] She

[00:27:30] went through a transformation

[00:27:32] from the start of the

[00:27:33] film to the end of the film.

[00:27:35] She saw him

[00:27:37] skeptical of an outsider.

[00:27:42] She slowly

[00:27:44] got engrossed with him

[00:27:46] and she believed in him.

[00:27:49] She trusted him.

[00:27:51] He broke her trust

[00:27:53] and then he said

[00:27:54] he was better than her

[00:27:56] and betrayed her

[00:27:58] right in her face.

[00:28:00] So she went through

[00:28:02] the whole emotion,

[00:28:04] the whole core

[00:28:06] of the turning of the character

[00:28:08] of Timothy Shalamey

[00:28:10] occurred in her

[00:28:11] and she bore

[00:28:13] the full impact of it all.

[00:28:15] She felt the full betrayal

[00:28:17] and her face acting

[00:28:18] at the very end of the film

[00:28:20] was amazing

[00:28:22] and I thought it captured

[00:28:23] everything in a moment.

[00:28:25] I think she did a great job.

[00:28:28] I also want to point out that

[00:28:31] you talked about the fact

[00:28:32] that Paula Trees can see the future

[00:28:35] but the problem with Paula Trees

[00:28:36] is that

[00:28:38] he can see many futures

[00:28:39] and he doesn't know

[00:28:40] which one is which.

[00:28:42] He could see the future

[00:28:43] from even the first part

[00:28:44] and he had dreams

[00:28:45] about catching up

[00:28:46] with Zendaya.

[00:28:48] I remember in the first part

[00:28:49] where

[00:28:50] he always had this dream

[00:28:51] where he was fighting

[00:28:52] a bunch of folks

[00:28:53] in the middle of the sand

[00:28:54] and then he would

[00:28:56] turn around

[00:28:57] and raise his helmet

[00:28:58] and he would see his face.

[00:29:00] We all thought that was going to be him

[00:29:02] but at the end of the film

[00:29:03] it ended up being Zendaya

[00:29:05] a totally different reality.

[00:29:07] So the reality he had

[00:29:09] at the beginning of the film

[00:29:10] that saw him as the good guy

[00:29:12] trying to fight off

[00:29:13] the killers of his father

[00:29:15] became

[00:29:17] a dream where Zendaya

[00:29:19] was the good guy

[00:29:20] and he was standing in the background

[00:29:22] commanding folks

[00:29:23] to do what he wants them to do.

[00:29:25] So I think that the question of the dreams

[00:29:28] the idea of the dreams

[00:29:30] has always been questionable

[00:29:32] Polatarius is just as blind

[00:29:34] as it was at the very beginning

[00:29:37] but he saw an opportunity

[00:29:39] to take the fever

[00:29:41] of the religion

[00:29:43] which was played perfectly

[00:29:44] by Javier Badem

[00:29:46] the fervor of that religion

[00:29:48] where everything,

[00:29:49] every action

[00:29:50] he takes

[00:29:51] seems to be perfect

[00:29:53] and free destined

[00:29:55] and Javier Badem

[00:29:57] did a great job

[00:29:59] of pushing that destiny forward

[00:30:01] by recommending

[00:30:02] Jessica to be

[00:30:04] the spirit mother

[00:30:07] he could have chosen anybody

[00:30:08] he could have chosen somebody

[00:30:09] within the tribe

[00:30:11] or he could have let Jessica

[00:30:13] get to that role herself

[00:30:15] Jessica was a bad

[00:30:17] bad-ass character throughout this film though

[00:30:20] and her transformation

[00:30:21] was a motherly

[00:30:24] figure protecting her son

[00:30:26] to outright

[00:30:29] religious assassin

[00:30:31] in this film

[00:30:32] where she's praying on the week

[00:30:33] was just masterful to watch

[00:30:37] I think that

[00:30:39] I've not even talked about

[00:30:42] the absolute

[00:30:44] masterpiece

[00:30:46] that was the

[00:30:48] Fred Rother's

[00:30:51] country

[00:30:53] or planet

[00:30:55] where the sun was eliminated

[00:30:57] using infrared rays

[00:30:58] and everything seemed to be black and white

[00:31:00] the way they committed

[00:31:02] to it with the ink blocks

[00:31:05] ink blots as what do you call it

[00:31:07] as fireworks

[00:31:09] I've not talked about

[00:31:11] the fact that

[00:31:13] the

[00:31:15] the benedjesuits

[00:31:17] seem to have infiltrated

[00:31:19] every single

[00:31:21] tribe

[00:31:23] and they are

[00:31:25] implanting stories in every single way

[00:31:28] using religion

[00:31:29] as a means to control everyone

[00:31:32] Leah said do's acting

[00:31:34] was great she played a very small role in this

[00:31:37] but she kind of highlights

[00:31:39] how these people

[00:31:40] propagate their stories

[00:31:42] and how they maintain the bloodlines

[00:31:45] Bautista plays

[00:31:47] an interesting character

[00:31:48] who seems to be weak

[00:31:50] and even for the short period

[00:31:53] where Austin Butler was in this movie

[00:31:56] he captivated

[00:31:58] I think that this movie was just so well done

[00:32:01] honestly

[00:32:03] I think that this movie was just

[00:32:05] wonderful

[00:32:07] I don't really have much more to add to that

[00:32:10] I do

[00:32:12] you bring up a good point

[00:32:14] so awesome butler

[00:32:16] let's talk about awesome butler for a hot minute

[00:32:19] why not like Zendaya a lot

[00:32:21] and I think she's great

[00:32:22] she is a little one-out I think

[00:32:24] let's talk about awesome butler

[00:32:26] I despise the guy

[00:32:27] I just don't like him

[00:32:29] but mainly because he's this

[00:32:32] oh I'm an artist

[00:32:34] Mr. I need to have a dialect coach

[00:32:36] to get my Elvis accent out of my normal speech

[00:32:40] get the fuck out of here

[00:32:42] but anyway so awesome butler

[00:32:44] his character is all propped up to be this

[00:32:47] mega villain

[00:32:48] that in the opening argument

[00:32:51] he's

[00:32:53] he's prepped up to be this master fighter person

[00:32:57] right

[00:32:59] so let's talk about the gladiator fight that he's doing

[00:33:03] he is

[00:33:05] fighting against three people

[00:33:09] two of them are drugged

[00:33:11] the third one was supposed to be drugged as well

[00:33:13] but wasn't

[00:33:15] he has a personal shield on

[00:33:19] and the first two he are very easy obviously they're drugged

[00:33:23] and he has a freaking shield on

[00:33:25] and the third person gives him a little bit of a fight

[00:33:29] but not really right so it's kind of established

[00:33:33] but not really because he's also getting help again

[00:33:36] there's like other people around

[00:33:38] he's yelling at them not to help

[00:33:40] but they're ultimately did

[00:33:42] so yay

[00:33:44] and he wins that fight

[00:33:47] and the is it the benefit just read or like

[00:33:51] yes a lot of potential

[00:33:53] he's very strong it's like

[00:33:55] easy though like he fought one person

[00:33:58] yes he won

[00:34:00] but it's not a fair fight

[00:34:03] so what of that performance has shown us that he is this master

[00:34:07] fighter

[00:34:09] he's brutal but anyway right so

[00:34:11] so again it's like

[00:34:12] it looks cool I agree with the infrared and all like

[00:34:16] everything looks cool is great

[00:34:18] not a contest there right

[00:34:20] but it's like if you think about what happens

[00:34:23] what's being said just for a minute it's like

[00:34:25] what are they even doing here

[00:34:27] it's so dumb

[00:34:29] and then so he's propped up to be this gigantic villain

[00:34:34] and then he's getting Arya Stark at the end

[00:34:36] that's basically what happens

[00:34:40] and it's nothing it fizzles out it's like

[00:34:46] it's kind of this it's really disappointing for me

[00:34:50] right because it's like okay cool we have this big name actor

[00:34:54] that is like propped up to be this this villain

[00:34:57] that's gonna carry us over into the next film

[00:34:59] probably that's kind of what is the trajectory that we're getting

[00:35:03] and then it's just kind of like yeah

[00:35:05] okay he's done

[00:35:07] okay whatever you know never mind

[00:35:09] we spent a lot of time building this character up for nothing

[00:35:12] and that's what I'm saying this film is too long

[00:35:13] because we're just wasting time on things that are meaningless in the long run

[00:35:19] and then lastly when I pick up Gurney

[00:35:23] another thing that makes no sense in my opinion

[00:35:26] we've seen countless attacks on on spice harvesting

[00:35:32] and they just go

[00:35:37] you know they just go kill everybody attack the thing

[00:35:40] and then that's that's done that's done for right but again

[00:35:45] this is special they're attacked the thing

[00:35:48] they're buried

[00:35:51] Paula tradies is buried in the sand so there's no way of knowing really that Gurney is part of that group

[00:35:58] and it just happens to be the gurney is on the ground

[00:36:02] and Paula tradies happens to be able to recognize his footsteps

[00:36:06] and then not attack him

[00:36:07] it's just so convenient

[00:36:10] it's so convenient and it's not

[00:36:13] matching all the previous behavior that was happening in the establishment of them before

[00:36:18] and I think that's my main critique of this

[00:36:21] everything is so convenient

[00:36:23] it looks great but it's so convenient

[00:36:25] there's no real stakes things that are set up are just fizzling out for nothing

[00:36:30] it's taking forever to do anything

[00:36:33] and that's really frustrating

[00:36:34] so yeah it's good

[00:36:37] so I'm gonna I'm gonna counter counter some of your points there

[00:36:41] one of the things that I should say is that Fred Ratter was basically Paula tradies

[00:36:46] Paula tradies from a totally different perspective

[00:36:49] they have the same potential

[00:36:52] he went through the same process that Paula tradies went through in the first film

[00:36:56] basically he's just a moniker of exactly what Paula tradies was

[00:37:01] and one thing that Paula tradies is is a great manipulator

[00:37:06] and he is

[00:37:08] he's trained so well in the art of combat

[00:37:12] that the idea of him knowing how his gurney's footsteps in the sand would look

[00:37:21] would not be will sound or would work or walk

[00:37:25] it's not something that would be beyond the training that he's had

[00:37:28] he's extensive training

[00:37:31] and I think that this just they use this to capture how in tune

[00:37:39] he is with his his abilities

[00:37:42] I didn't see it as anything beyond a continuation of some of the acts that he did throughout the film

[00:37:50] I do feel like it's it doesn't it doesn't break the mold is what I'm trying to say

[00:37:59] but I do feel like using using Austin Butler as a an allegory or a mimic of what happened in part one

[00:38:11] because he went through the whole process even put his hands into the box

[00:38:14] but he likes that kind of stuff

[00:38:17] Paula tradies doesn't he likes the pain so him fighting with the three people

[00:38:23] he saw it as a challenge and even actively participates by taking off his shield

[00:38:28] so I don't think he's a coward in anywhere and I think that he was genuinely intrigued by the whole process

[00:38:37] he didn't plan it he was his uncle that planned it

[00:38:40] so but he jumped he saw an opportunity to show the crowd that he is is a crowd it was basically a crowd pleaser in a sense

[00:38:52] so yes I think that he was a formidable fighter by raising his profile up similar to what Paula tradies was

[00:39:03] the fight at the end seemed a lot more tense and I think that you would appreciate how well he would be able to manipulate that fight

[00:39:13] at the very end of the film so I thought it was well done

[00:39:17] alright that's all I had I'm sure I can come up with more but you know let's let's move on

[00:39:26] that's not to have this also be a three hour long podcast

[00:39:31] overall sidebar guilty speculation here's a bailiff briefcase disregard in my chamber stop beaver and the witness arrest

[00:39:39] we could totally be lawyers

[00:39:41] yeah we could wait for almost 40 minutes I will say this I will say this this movie is a masterpiece it does have some issues

[00:39:49] I do agree with you on the fact that their threads that are unfinished so the motivations are not clear

[00:39:55] I think that Frank Herbert founded first reading that his book people saw atreus atreus as a as a hero

[00:40:05] I think that Denis Villeneuve fell into the same exact trap

[00:40:09] people are going to watch this film and realize that feel that he's a hero but in reality the heroes of the film are you know Zendaya

[00:40:19] and people who didn't fall into his manipulation this movie is about the loss of a hero to religion and manipulation of cultures

[00:40:33] and the fact that you know at the end of the film it was Zendaya we see fighting the bad guys

[00:40:43] about Tista's men is just an indication of how far Paul had fallen from his grace in the first part in the first film

[00:40:57] so yeah the image the humor the sound the story all of that was great I think that this movie deserves to be watched in this theater

[00:41:04] yeah I mean it's hard for me to argue against the vibe I think design wise this movie is amazing it's so good the sound is great the music is great

[00:41:22] like everything just works and feels very cohesive design wise like if you look at the Fincher or David Lynch Fincher would be a very different dude

[00:41:33] the David Lynch dude it's so goofy but it's also kind of charming but this is like truly a cool design aesthetic that works well

[00:41:49] and like visually breathtaking great film since I've seen it twice now again that's kind of when you start figuring out the imperfections on this

[00:42:02] it's I think when you watch it once you're dazzled by the prettiness of it all and it's very compelling it's very kind of it sucks you in

[00:42:17] and that's kind of cool thing about this about the Dune films from it's like they suck you in because the the lore is presented in a very compelling way

[00:42:32] and it feels so cohesive and just works so well you have all these contrasts right like the different factions in this game of sand dunes is that they're so different and so visually different but still it all works together

[00:42:50] it's great it's really really cool but the story is not necessarily all that in my opinion and again it's so long it's really long and there's not a lot happening to warrant that

[00:43:07] except it like if you just accept that okay a lot of this movie is vibe you know and just kind of trying to lull you in which now that I think of it like it's it's almost like you're being programmed to also believe into the the Paula Trady's more deep kind of you know he's the savior of it all kind of right

[00:43:30] you know it's we kind of kind of lulled into in and being manipulated into that as well the question is like this is that really because like if you think about it if if waters coming back to that sand planet then that completely throws off everything

[00:43:44] like in the ecology wise right like I think that destroys the planet in a lot of ways to so there's some ethical questions there too so it's like again like you're saying he's truly an anti hero but he's kind of propped up to be a hero that's what I heard please correct me if I mischaracterize what you were saying but I think that's true and I think it's

[00:44:14] it's mainly because Timothy shall amaze just kind of the actor right now and he is more likeable than somebody in somebody that needs to fill Paula Trady's shoes should be but then again it's it's again also fine line of in order to convince that people follow this dude

[00:44:37] but he needs to be likable enough but I think like Timothy shall amaze just as a as an actor and kind of as the it guy of like with just a lot of positiveness around him right would

[00:44:52] it makes it a little challenging awesome butler on the other hand also kind of a guy I don't like him right I could play the same thing he's charming but he's just full of himself right but that would also work would give a different color to this but yeah

[00:45:11] any thoughts on that

[00:45:13] not necessarily I

[00:45:16] I

[00:45:20] the interesting thing is I think a lot of the responses that I've had

[00:45:26] to the point you made is probably somewhere in some of the points that I've made I I I get your point I get I get the idea that you're trying to portray but I feel like

[00:45:37] you know it's

[00:45:42] they're all limited by the story they have to tell

[00:45:45] sure you know they're all limited by the story they can't go this book has been around for a long time

[00:45:51] they can't really

[00:45:53] go and break the rules that they play

[00:45:56] what they can do is maybe they can break a character maybe place the character here

[00:46:02] before I mean in the book that his sister was born she was in the chamber

[00:46:10] for example not Chani

[00:46:13] and you know he was communicating with her and all that she not again

[00:46:20] but they're limitations to what they can do you know

[00:46:24] so given that reality I feel like

[00:46:26] they've been able to expand the character and I get the point you make about the vibe the vibe works

[00:46:33] Austin Butler had a vibe throughout the film

[00:46:37] you know it's like

[00:46:39] sadistic

[00:46:42] uncontroversial bad guy for sure

[00:46:47] there was no question that he was a bad guy

[00:46:50] he had save women in the room

[00:46:52] trying their food and all of that stuff I

[00:46:56] I thought

[00:46:58] that the stock differences between the correct two factors were was intense

[00:47:06] so I feel

[00:47:08] like I said I like the direction they did with this film

[00:47:12] and you know

[00:47:14] if there was anybody to make part three

[00:47:17] which kind of delves into the

[00:47:19] into that specific aspect where

[00:47:23] people you know

[00:47:25] they actually question the Messiah complex that Paul has

[00:47:29] it would be a

[00:47:31] it would be an interesting idea

[00:47:33] at least it would make it a lot clearer

[00:47:36] what is actually going on

[00:47:38] but I don't dislike Austin Butler

[00:47:42] so I didn't find him

[00:47:44] and I think

[00:47:45] I don't like him

[00:47:47] I don't like him

[00:47:49] I don't know

[00:47:51] not like him

[00:47:53] is doing a lot in your story

[00:47:55] well yeah

[00:47:57] obviously right

[00:47:59] I mean it works because you're not supposed to like the character here either

[00:48:03] right

[00:48:05] so kind of

[00:48:07] I think

[00:48:09] I think

[00:48:11] I think

[00:48:12] I think I hear either

[00:48:14] right

[00:48:16] so it kind of works

[00:48:18] it's just

[00:48:20] I don't know

[00:48:22] it's

[00:48:24] I've not been convinced by any of his performances

[00:48:27] that would warrant

[00:48:29] just the whole

[00:48:32] I'm such an actor I need

[00:48:34] and that one comment just really irked me because it's like

[00:48:37] come on now step down

[00:48:39] you did not forget how to speak your normal way you speak

[00:48:42] seriously how old you are

[00:48:44] right like

[00:48:46] okay you can go into a character and all that and learn a dialect

[00:48:49] but you do not forget how to speak

[00:48:52] like you don't need to hire a dialect coach to go back to your normal way of speaking

[00:48:58] you just don't

[00:49:00] like come on

[00:49:02] dude

[00:49:04] I think that

[00:49:06] what do you call it

[00:49:08] what do you call it

[00:49:10] a lot of actors fall into that

[00:49:12] fall into that

[00:49:14] weird weird scenario

[00:49:18] I you know

[00:49:20] Shere LeBru

[00:49:22] Jada Pickett Smith

[00:49:24] James Corden

[00:49:27] a lot of people fall into that whole

[00:49:31] you know portraying of a weird

[00:49:35] what's the name of the guy who did

[00:49:38] there will be blood

[00:49:41] Daniel Day Lewis

[00:49:42] you know I hear some of the things that he has to go through

[00:49:47] he's like importing the whole character

[00:49:50] and all of those shenanigans I just find all of that stupid

[00:49:54] but they're all selling the myth

[00:49:56] they're all selling the myth

[00:49:58] and I think that

[00:50:00] they are looking for ways to stand out in the crowd

[00:50:04] so yeah that's all I see it

[00:50:07] it's just work

[00:50:09] yeah yeah

[00:50:12] next on the list

[00:50:14] something that stood out of the crowd

[00:50:16] as well back in the day

[00:50:18] we're going back in time finally

[00:50:20] it stood out of the crowd in 1995

[00:50:23] 1995

[00:50:25] and it stood out because the animations were so good for the time

[00:50:28] Toy Story

[00:50:31] you know anybody who was born in 1995

[00:50:34] is gonna be 30 in two years

[00:50:38] makes you feel old man

[00:50:41] makes you feel old

[00:50:43] makes you feel old man

[00:50:46] but yeah so we'll talk about that film next

[00:50:50] alright sounds good

[00:50:52] until then you guys can

[00:50:54] find us on social media

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[00:50:58] so find us on X

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[00:51:04] on our movie mistrial

[00:51:06] you can send us an email too

[00:51:08] contact at movymistrial.com

[00:51:10] and reach out if you want a book from Raji

[00:51:12] wonderful

[00:51:14] alright hope you guys have a good rest of your time

[00:51:17] or week

[00:51:19] and we'll see you soon